Alex Cooper Is Not The Female Joe Rogan — But Her $60,000,000 Spotify Deal is Re-Defining Business For Creators
Hindsight is always 20/20 — but it can never predict the futur
Alex Cooper is the woman behind the 2nd-biggest podcast in the world, Call Her Daddy — behind only the media mogul himself, Joe Rogan.
With this comparison comes a new monicker. She’s now being called ‘The female Joe Rogan.’
But as 2023 rolls around, and Alex enters year 2/3 of her $60,000,000 Spotify deal, she looks to step outside of the patriarchal shadow the nickname casts.
On a recent episode of the Jay Shetty Podcast, she said:
“Does anybody say, ‘ Joe Rogan is the male Alex Cooper?’ No. We have similar numbers, we have really loyal audiences, we’re both with Spotify… it’s frustrating that it is a de-qualifier.”
With an estimated 5 million monthly listeners, and after only 5 years since its inception, Alex looks to take Call Her Daddy from the sex-positive comedy podcast it’s known for, to becoming a voice for gender equality.
Here’s how Alex Cooper’s story has already changed the way creators do business. And what it means for large media conglomerates when scouting new talent.
Who is Alex Cooper?
The 28-year-old entrepreneur and media mogul is now walking red carpets and interviewing the biggest celebrities in the world. But, not too long ago, the leader of ‘The Daddy Gang’ was another lost college student looking for her place in the world.
And before that, she was an awkward pre-teen from a small religious town who was bullied incessantly for her acne, braces, and slight frame.
Here’s a brief history of Alex Cooper — before the fame, fortune, and followers that would soon… well, follow.
Born in Newtown Pennsylvania, Alex didn’t encounter the usual hardships that lead to hard-nosed entrepreneurial success. Her parents were supportive and financially stable.
Alex’s mom was a psychologist who embraced mental health at every turn. Her dad worked in sports production and nurtured her passion for content creation from a very young age.
But, trauma is deeply personal, and affects every human differently.
Alex’s early childhood experiences would undoubtedly shape her desire to be heard, seen, respected, and help women around the world do the same.
Attending a catholic school, girls weren’t allowed to wear makeup and were shamed for embracing their sexuality. She recounts being riddled with acne, and one day, tried to cover it up with concealer. She was caught by her teacher and ridiculed for it in front of the whole class.
She would wear 3 pairs of leggings to soccer practice to hide her ‘skinny legs’.
And when she didn’t, she was physically bullied by boys at school, who would push her over to “see if her legs would snap.”
Ashamed by her appearance, and looking for a sense of validation, Alex became obsessed with social media— locking herself in her parent’s basement for hours each night to create content.
Being born in 1994, platforms like Snapchat, Instagram, and YouTube became popular during her time in high school, making Alex’s obsession with content creation perfectly timed.
By the 8th grade, she had earned her 10,000 hours in content creation and was becoming something of an expert. Her specific obsession with video editing would go on to be particularly important to her hero’s arc. But more on that later.
In high school, things began to look up for Alex. She gained confidence through her studies, social media content, and competitive sports (eventually earning a scholarship to play soccer at a Division-1 school, Boston University).
She began packing on some muscle, and went through a self-proclaimed ‘glow-up’.
As she transitioned from outcast to it-crowd, Alex hid her love for video editing. After begging her parents and principal to let her take ‘Video Production’ for all 4 years of high school (ironically skipping ‘Sex Education’ class) she played it off to her friends saying,
“I don’t know, like they think I’m good at it so like, ugh, whatever.”
“It only actually made me feel just awful… I was like, ‘I’m the same person’… you’re only treating me differently because I got a prescription for Accutane, got some hair dye, got my braces off… it’s quite literally just physical.”
This understanding of the shallow nature of attraction, her newfound glow-up, and a desire to express herself fully, coupled with a masterclass in content creation created the perfect training ground for Alex’s skyrocketing success.
One that took flight just 4 months after starting Call Her Daddy.
How Call Her Daddy got started.
Although Alex’s sex-positive comedy podcast now feels like a cultural mainstay, it’s only been around for 5 years.
In fact, amazingly, Alex has only been podcasting for 5 years.
In 2018, Alex had recently graduated college and was hoping to turn her love for content creation into a career. On her YouTube channel, in a video that would go on to detail the most important decision of Alex’s career, she recounts what her life was like pre-podcast:
“I was on unemployment checks, I didn’t have a job, at the time I was just vlogging and trying to make it as a YouTuber.”
She was living in New York City with her roommate, best friend, and original co-host of Call Her Daddy, Sofia Franklyn — who actually came up with the idea to start the podcast. Sofia worked in finance and had just started working at a startup. Having experience with video editing, and a full-time schedule to invest in the podcast, Alex took control of the editing, marketing, and social media.
In one of Alex’s early YouTube videos announcing the launch of Call Her Daddy, she summarizes the direction that would soon become a smashing success:
“We’re talking sex, details, exes, the sh*t you talk about behind closed doors with your friends in your bedroom, on your sleepovers, over drinks with your boyfriend, let’s just freaking put it out there.”
Meanwhile, Dave Portnoy, founder and president of the popular sports media company, Barstool Sports, was looking for new content to add to his $450 million media empire.
Being from the same area in New York, Dave had heard of Alex & Sofia’s podcast and saw potential in it. He reached out to Alex via Instagram DMs to set up a meeting.
The following message would go on to not only incubate Call Her Daddy, but lead to one of the juiciest and most public business feuds in our modern history:
After an initial meeting at Barstool Headquarters, Alex introduced Dave to Sofia and the trio worked out an initial 3-year deal, with the following terms:
- $75,000 salary to start each (with raises each year)
- A percentage of merchandise & alcohol sales
- Bonuses based on download numbers
After just 4 episodes, Call Her Daddy was incubated.
With the backing of Barstool Sports, a studio, and complete creative freedom, Call Her Daddy took flight like a rocket ship.
At the end of their first year:
- Alex made $506,000
- Sofia made $461,000
This is because of the structure of their contracts, Alex and Sofia received additional pay based on their downloads. And according to Dave,
“Their downloads were f*cking huge.”
Another important aspect of the deal was that Barstool owned the podcast’s I.P. (Intellectual Property) for the duration of the contract.
**In layman’s terms, an I.P. provides full legal control to whoever owns it. This means advertising, sponsorships, licensing, etc. Although Alex & Sofia were the faces of Call Her Daddy, without the IP they didn’t technically own it.
Normally, it would be every podcaster’s dream to start a podcast, be acquired by a large company and earn nearly half a million dollars within the first year.
But, due to how popular the show became, rumblings of how Alex and Sofia were being taken advantage of, began to spread in the social media world.
Rumblings that would soon erupt into of the biggest and most public and media controversies in recent history — one that was covered by every major news outlet including Cosmopolitan and The New York Times.
The infamous Barstool/Call Her Daddy feud.
The feud that re-defined business for creators.
In December 2019, at Barstool’s annual Christmas party, Call Her Daddy was the talk of the town.
Being thrilled with the success of the show, and after hearing of Alex and Sofia’s disgruntlement with their current contracts, Dave and Barstool CEO, Erika Nardini, decided to give them both raises.
But, disgruntlement had already begun not only between Barstool and Call Her Daddy but Alex and Sofia as well. Since the beginning of the show, Alex had been handling all of the editing, marketing, and social media.
In a tell-all YouTube video, Alex shares that she had a unique editing style (more of a vlog style to cater to short millennial/gen-z attention spans), and episodes would take her 7–20 hours to edit.
“I essentially had a second job.”
Because of this extra work, Dave and Erika decided to give Alex an additional raise — something Alex never told Sofia, fearing a rift in their partnership.
Little did she know that the rift had already begun. And the structure of their relationship was about to come crashing down.
Around the same time, Sofia began dating who would later be known as ‘Suitman’— HBO Sports executive, Peter Nelson.
It’s hard to say exactly who or what caused the rift between the two co-hosts, but one thing is for sure. Peter expedited the process.
Feeling as though they had outgrown their contracts, Alex and Sofia began listening to advice from Peter — who offered to shop their contract around to get them more money.
And, a few weeks later, despite their recent raises, Alex and Sofia met with Dave to renegotiate their contracts. To Dave, this was business as usual, and thought they had a productive meeting.
But with too many cooks in the kitchen, things quickly went sour for everyone involved. In a soon-to-be notorious podcast episode on the Call Her Daddy feed, Dave shared,
“We had a conversation, I thought it went well, and I get an email from Alex and Sofia, which clearly was not written by Alex and Sofia, it was written by a lawyer that basically said, ‘Hey we want to sit down and re-do this deal’. And more than that it said, ‘We don’t feel we were represented properly when we signed with you guys and never would have given you the IP.’”
Following the advice of Peter’s team of lawyers, Alex and Sofia sent Dave their list of demands:
- $1 million guaranteed per year
- 50% of any merchandise sales
- 100% ownership of their I.P.
- 50% of ad revenue
At the time, essentially no creators owned their I.P.
**This is because granting a creator the I.P. to their content (show, music, etc.) grants them the power to walk away at any time. And when a large media company, such as Barstool, invests money into a product, they want to see a return on their investment.
It’s this same relationship that has often been misused to trap artists and reality show stars into long, unfair contracts, despite their value.
After tense negotiations between Barstool and the Call Her Daddy legal team, on April 08th, 2020, Alex and Sofia stopped recording podcasts.
Unfortunately for Barstool, all of this coincided with the 2020 pandemic, and Barstool was losing money fast. Call Her Daddy was their most popular podcast and they needed it back up, quickly. So, after 5 weeks with no new episodes being posted to the Call her Daddy feed, Dave put out his own episode titled, “Daddy Speaks”.
Over the impromptu 29-minute episode Dave explained his side of the story and extended an olive branch to negotiate, sharing:
“Do you know how much money we’ve lost by them not doing the podcast? We lose close to $100,000 an episode.”
It was with this episode that the controversy went public.
Every major news outlet and social media personality had an opinion. Behind the scenes, Dave had offered Alex and Sofia one final, generous deal — in what is now known as ‘the famous rooftop meeting’.
On an episode of the Full Send Podcast, Dave recounts his final communication with the pair, on the rooftop terrace of his New York City apartment building:
“Basically, they were getting ready to leave and we needed them. So, I made them an unbelievable deal. I was like, ‘You guys can take the I.P., I’ll shorten your contracts and give you more money, we just need you for another year.’”
Upon hearing the deal, Alex’s eyes lit up with excitement — they had gotten the I.P.
But, it was a stark difference in how Alex and Sofia viewed the value of their business that caused their trajectories to split. One continuing on with the skyrocketing success of Call Her Daddy. And the other, falling into relative obscurity.
Elated with the deal, Alex was ready to take it right away and get back to work. Sofia, on the other hand, wasn’t happy. And, over the next few weeks, it became apparent she would never be happy.
Over a 2-hour phone call, the Call Her Daddy duo decided to part ways. In a tell-all YouTube video, titled “The truth about Call Her Daddy…”, Alex summarizes the call:
“We valued the brand in a very different way… [Alex quoting Sofia, saying], ‘What it comes down to is you don’t want to leave and I don’t want to stay.’
At the end of the day:
- Alex saw value in the brand — in owning the I.P. to Call Her Daddy
- Sofia felt as though they were the brand — and they could start a new podcast, with a different name, and be just as successful.
With that realization, and neither willing to budge, Alex called Dave and took the deal. She fulfilled her new contract with Barstool and became the face of Call Her Daddy. Sofia started her own podcast — Sofia With an ‘F’.
Then, in June of 2021, Alex made history — inking a 3-year, $60,000,000 deal with Spotify. The biggest deal ever recorded for a female podcaster.
Although hindsight is always 20/20 and it’s impossible to predict the future, there’s a lot that can be learned from Alex, Sofia, and Dave’s part to play in the success of Call Her Daddy:
- Dave gave up the I.P. but got Call Her Daddy back on the air
- Alex got the I.P. but had to risk going out on her own
- Sofia bet on herself and well… came up short
There’s no way to tell whether Call Her Daddy would have been as successful if the pair had stayed together, but it’s hard not to look at it as a misstep for Sofia.
As Dave would go on to put it,
“That’s one of the worst decisions ever made by a human.”
What this means for creators around the world.
As of today, Dave and Alex remain on good terms — Sofia, not so much. On a recent episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Dave shared,
“She’s not my favourite person.”
But, regardless of their personal feelings, the deal revealed a very important aspect of doing business when creative property is involved.
The importance of who owns the I.P.
Social media has put more power in the hands of creators, but there is still a place for large corporations to act as incubators, as Barstool did for Call Her Daddy.
But it’s all about striking the right deal.
Dave’s willingness to bend on Alex and Sofia’s initial contract shows a shift in the creator economy. Although Barstool had all the resources and power in the world (including the I.P.), people wanted to hear from the Call Her Daddy girls.
This thirst for content was enough for him to give up the I.P. — something unheard of until today.
That said, most creators don’t have the rapid rise of Call Her Daddy. In fact, we may never see one as fast or monumental again. And working with a large company or investor can be a great way for budding creators to create initial momentum.
Many YouTube channels have now begun acting as studios, hosting numerous shows under their banner — Barstool being one of the first.
If nothing else, the feud between Barstool and Call Her Daddy illustrated one point — the importance of owning your content.
Ironically, and to come full circle, it’s a lesson Joe Rogan preaches constantly on his podcast,
“I tell younger comics all the time, own your own sh*t… don’t give up anything.”
Being a trailblazer in the podcasting world, Joe has been approached countless times to sell his name, likeness, and I.P. over the years — turning down every offer.
And, by betting on himself he was able to secure the biggest podcasting deal in history — signing a 3.5-year exclusive-rights deal with Spotify, in February of 2022, for $200 million.
While keeping full ownership of his I.P.
So, if there’s anything to be learned from Alex, Sofia, Barstool, and Joe’s story, it’s this:
Be willing to work with others — but own your own sh*t.
Final thoughts: no one can predict the future.
But we can always learn from the past.
There are so many directions we can go as to what Alex’s story means for the future. As a pioneer in the podcast space, she’s breaking down barriers not only for women, but creators around the world.
And, has recently revamped the Call Her Daddy show to be less comedic and more advocative — a microphone for gender equality.
But, what I found interesting is how, although polar opposites in many respects, Joe and Alex both share a handful of core traits and experiences.
Traits synonymous with internet-age entrepreneurial success.
For the last few months, I’ve been writing weekly deep dives on popular marketing stories, like the one you’ve just read.
What I’ve noticed is a trend amongst almost every internet-age entrepreneur. They all:
- Faced early childhood adversity
- Became obsessed with their craft
- Teamed up with another group/entity
- Made 1–2 major decisions that changed everything
And finally, they didn’t sell out — no matter how big the offer.
So, regardless of your background, content, or life experience, Alex’s story can teach you one important lesson.
Be willing to do business — but own your own sh*t.
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